Skip to main content

Matthew Cobb - Five Way Interview

Matthew Cobb is Professor of Zoology at the University of Manchester, where he studies the sense of smell and the history of science. He is the author of a number of popular science books, including The Egg and Sperm Race (2006), Life’s Greatest Secret (2015 – shortlisted for the Royal Society Book Prize), The Idea of the Brain (2020 – shortlisted for the Baillie-Gifford Non-Fiction Book Prize) and Smell: A Very Short Introduction (2020). He is also an award-winning translator of science books, most recently Michel Morange’s 2020 The Black Box of Biology: A History of the Molecular Revolution  and was awarded the title Chevalier dans l’Ordre des Palmes Académiques for his services to French culture. His latest book is The Genetic Age.

Why science?

Science is the best way we have of obtaining reliable knowledge about the world, enabling us to both understand and change it. That knowledge is rarely complete, however, and sometimes (often?) turns out to be incorrect. Understanding how we got to where we are therefore involves looking at the apparent mistakes of the past, putting them into context so that we can understand why they occurred. So not just science, but also history!

Why this book?

In 2019 I finished translating (with Barbara Mellor) Michel Morange’s The Black Box of Biology: A History of the Molecular Revolution. This is a massive updated version of his 1995 book A History of Molecular Biology, which I translated. I was struck by the fact that there was very little about the history of genetic engineering in it, and the more I investigated and thought about it, I realised that this is something that has never been properly explored, either by academics or by popular science writers. 

For example, the revolution in GM crops, which occurred during the 1980s and has proved globally significant (whatever you think of it), has simply been passed over. There are virtually no accounts of this decisive development. Furthermore, for some years I have been worried about three areas of genetic research – human germline manipulation, gene drives and ‘gain of function’ research on dangerous pathogens. But I was also aware that my fears were similar to those that had repeatedly punctuated the history of this technology, and which had - so far - turned out to be groundless. And above all, that those concerns had been shared be geneticists, who four times in the history of genetic engineering had decided to pause their research because it was too dangerous. 

So I decided to explore my fears by confronting them with the history of genetic engineering. Then the pandemic hit. I found lockdown very hard – I couldn’t watch films or TV, or read novels, because I was too anxious. But to my amazement I discovered that I could read scientific articles and could concentrate on this book, so it was largely written in 2020 and the first half of 2021. I even made a three-part BBC radio series/podcast, Genetic Dreams, Genetic Nightmares, which covers much of the same ground and included interviews with all of the key people involved. The upshot of it all is that I am still concerned by the latest developments, and I think the public should be, too.

What do you think the next big impact from genetic modification/gene editing will be?

It is hard to tell, partly because there are so many promises, most of which will not be realised because they turn out to be technically impossible. For example, we will not de-extinct the mammoth, no matter how much people might want to, and never mind how much money is poured into the project. More likely is that new therapies will become available – for some – that enable particular genetic diseases, or particular kinds of cancers, to be targeted safely and effectively. For example, there are a number of therapies being developed for sickle cell disease, which affects millions of people around the world, mainly from Africa or of African descent; similar genetic diseases affect other populations. 

We can be sure that these therapies will work, and if they are safe, they will change lives. However, they will not be cheap, and the question of unequal access to healthcare, which differs within and between countries, will be highlighted by these developments. More fundamentally, the massive extension of gene editing in the laboratory will lead to amazing new discoveries, as it enables us to manipulate any organism we can rear in the lab. This has already led to major discoveries in my field of study – the sense of smell. Our understanding of the molecular basis of olfaction in insects was largely based on work on the fruitfly Drosophila. With gene editing it became possible to change the olfactory system of ants, and it turned out that Drosophila is not typical of all insects in how the olfactory system wires itself – there is undoubtedly a great deal to discover by studying animals that are outside the usual range of lab animals. 

The practical importance of such fundamental research is hard to predict in advance, but we can be sure it will be there. I remain worried about the possibility of things going wrong, in particular with gene drives, which can potentially wipe out whole species, such as disease-transmitting mosquitoes, and with gain of function research, where researchers try to predict the course of future pandemics by making existing pathogens even more dangerous. That seems to me to be very risky, and something I am not convinced is worth the potential hazard.

What’s next for you?

I am writing a biography of Francis Crick! This will cover his whole 60 year academic career, exploring his astonishing influence in molecular genetics and in neuroscience, trying to evoke his brilliance for the non-specialist reader. This is partly a development of two of my earlier books: Life’s Greatest Secret (2015) which, to my surprise, turned into a paean of praise to Crick, who played a fundamental role in driving work on the genetic code, and The Idea of the Brain (2020). Before writing the brain book I knew that in the mid-70s Crick turned to neuroscience and consciousness, but thought that he had little influence. How wrong I was; in every chapter dealing with neuroscience after the 1950s, Crick muscled his way to the front, with the exception of the chapter on neurotransmitters. I realised that it would be enormous fun to write a biography about the man and his extraordinary life.

What’s exciting you at the moment?

Well, there is an amazing report in Cell in which a group of researchers in various private companies from around the world, as well as French INSERM and CNRS resrearchers have created RNA organelles – tiny functional sub-units – and introduced them into E. coli bacteria as a way of precisely controlling their biochemistry. This takes our ability to manipulate life onto another level. There is also a development in CAR-T cell treatment that has transformed the lives of five people with severe lupus. As always, these experimental treatments need to be scaled up into safe and reliable therapies, but there is real reason to hope. Similarly, a recent study of a vaccine against malaria proved 80% effective at preventing malaria. This is not perfect, but does indicate that real progress can be made against one of humanity’s oldest and deadliest enemies.

Interview by Brian Clegg - See all of Brian's online articles or subscribe to a digest free here

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Rakhat-Bi Abdyssagin Five Way Interview

Rakhat-Bi Abdyssagin (born in 1999) is a distinguished composer, concert pianist, music theorist and researcher. Three of his piano CDs have been released in Germany. He started his undergraduate degree at the age of 13 in Kazakhstan, and having completed three musical doctorates in prominent Italian music institutions at the age of 20, he has mastered advanced composition techniques. In 2024 he completed a PhD in music at the University of St Andrews / Royal Conservatoire of Scotland (researching timbre-texture co-ordinate in avant- garde music), and was awarded The Silver Medal of The Worshipful Company of Musicians, London. He has held visiting affiliations at the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge and UCL, and has been lecturing and giving talks internationally since the age of 13. His latest book is Quantum Mechanics and Avant Garde Music . What links quantum physics and avant-garde music? The entire book is devoted to this question. To put it briefly, there are many different link...

Should we question science?

I was surprised recently by something Simon Singh put on X about Sabine Hossenfelder. I have huge admiration for Simon, but I also have a lot of respect for Sabine. She has written two excellent books and has been helpful to me with a number of physics queries - she also had a really interesting blog, and has now become particularly successful with her science videos. This is where I'm afraid she lost me as audience, as I find video a very unsatisfactory medium to take in information - but I know it has mass appeal. This meant I was concerned by Simon's tweet (or whatever we are supposed to call posts on X) saying 'The Problem With Sabine Hossenfelder: if you are a fan of SH... then this is worth watching.' He was referencing a video from 'Professor Dave Explains' - I'm not familiar with Professor Dave (aka Dave Farina, who apparently isn't a professor, which is perhaps a bit unfortunate for someone calling out fakes), but his videos are popular and he...

Everything is Predictable - Tom Chivers *****

There's a stereotype of computer users: Mac users are creative and cool, while PC users are businesslike and unimaginative. Less well-known is that the world of statistics has an equivalent division. Bayesians are the Mac users of the stats world, where frequentists are the PC people. This book sets out to show why Bayesians are not just cool, but also mostly right. Tom Chivers does an excellent job of giving us some historical background, then dives into two key aspects of the use of statistics. These are in science, where the standard approach is frequentist and Bayes only creeps into a few specific applications, such as the accuracy of medical tests, and in decision theory where Bayes is dominant. If this all sounds very dry and unexciting, it's quite the reverse. I admit, I love probability and statistics, and I am something of a closet Bayesian*), but Chivers' light and entertaining style means that what could have been the mathematical equivalent of debating angels on...