Athene Donald - Five Way Interview

Athene Donald is Professor Emerita in Experimental Physics and Master of Churchill College, University of Cambridge. Other than four years postdoctoral research in the USA, she has spent her career in Cambridge, specializing in soft matter physics and physics at the interface with biology. She was the University of Cambridge's first Gender Equality Champion, and has been involved in numerous initiatives concerning women in science. She was elected Fellow of the Royal Society in 1999 and appointed DBE for services to Physics in 2010. Her new book is Not Just for the Boys.

Why science?

Science is all about curiosity. It underpins so much of our world, yet many people – including the media – don’t trouble to think much about it or write about it and sometimes choose to pit science against the humanities and social sciences. This is unhelpful, to say the least, and I would like other people to share my enthusiasm for the subject, or at least recognize why it is crucially important. And why, specifically, it matters if society deters girls from thinking about the STEM subjects.

 Why this book?

I’ve been working on issues connected with diversity in science for many years. I feel angry that, despite years, or even decades, of recognizing that the lack of women in STEM is a problem for society, remarkably little has changed since I started out on my career. During the time I was the University of Cambridge’s first gender equality champion I ended up reading more social science literature on the subject than physics itself, and I wanted to gather together all I had learned when I wrote this book. It aims to be a distillation of the many diverse approaches to trying to shift the dial, but I have also included some of my personal experiences from throughout my career. I hope the book will be read, not just by early career women wanting to know what they can expect and how they may be able to counter the biases they encounter, but also the general public (notably parents, teachers and policy-makers). I believe everyone has a role to play in moving our society beyond crude stereotypes about what is appropriate for boys and girls, be it with regard to toys or careers. Boys are as badly impacted by such stereotypes as girls, and we are wasting much talent in our society by driving children in gendered directions.

A lot of the scientists (female and male) I speak to mention science fiction as sparking their interest - should we be encouraging more girls to read SF?

In my book I discuss the results from a study which looked at the impact of the X-Files Agent Scully on girls’ and young women’s level of interest in science – an effect which was very significant. So I agree, science fiction should be seen as appropriate reading for anyone and everyone and, if it sparks interest in science that’s brilliant. I am honoured that in Una McCormack’s books set in the Star Trek universe, she has named a spaceship the Athene Donald – those kinds of books can be important reading for young adults. But different people get excited by very different things. Although I read John Wyndham and CS Lewis’ science fiction books as a child, I never related that to actually ‘doing’ science, so such books certainly didn’t impact on my own choices. 

What’s next?

I’m already retired from my University position (the University of Cambridge currently still has an employer justified mandatory retirement age), and will retire from my role as Master of Churchill College at the end of the next academic year. I’ve been waiting to see how my book will be received, waiting to see whether the people beyond the science community pick up the content of my book: I really hope teachers, parents and policy-makers will read it and think hard about the implications for them personally. All this means now is obviously a good moment to think carefully about what to do with the rest of my life. I cannot imagine just being a woman of leisure.

What’s exciting you at the moment?

I’ve been thinking about the issues for women in science for many years. But there are many other areas of disadvantage. I feel we should be paying more attention to the 50% of people who don’t go to university in the UK, some of whom are crucial in our labs as technicians of different kinds, for instance. As a country we need to do much better about supporting these people. Skills of all kinds are vital for our economy, and making sure that everyone can access appropriate courses should be a high priority.

On the scientific front, I am following with interest developments in greener sources of power: green hydrogen, green ammonia and new geothermal approaches to power generation. For all of us on the planet, these advances offer tremendous potential. There seem to be new advances occurring apace, which I am trying to keep abreast of.

Interview by Brian Clegg - See all of Brian's online articles or subscribe to a digest free here